Hi guys,

First let me say that this isn't an attack a rally or uprising or any nonsense like that, it is merely a suggestion in the suggestion thread. the rating system came up and I was struck by the fact that we are holding to a pg 13 system when we don't even let 13 year olds into the site. we ask for 15 and up for maturity reasons, that said we keep the smexy side of things under wrap pretty well with turning the lights off and fast forwarding of the dirty parts. something I am perfectly happy with. though sometimes with how cheeky the cbox gets I wonder if everyone else is . hooray innuendo!

that said I am finding a movie pg 13 rating kind of ridiculous

PG-13- Parents Strongly Cautioned (1984–present)
Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13

that doesn't apply to literature very well, though the teen rating of video games comes closer to the mark.(at least to me.)

TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

(I wouldn't mind that minimal next to blood getting changed to some or just struck threw all together. maybe put an and gore next to it.)

another compromise would be a tag on the title of the thread maybe a *V* for violence or something of the sort. to still give the heads up to those that don't care for more gruesome posts to avoid it. I think that we as readers and writers are capable of being reasonable and avoiding what we don't wont to read. Site wide plot threads can just as easily be *E* for everyone in which there are to be know exploding of heads or dismembering of bodies.

there have been plenty of threads across the board and with most of the writers here involved that would have got sent back to the editorial staff as not fit for pg13 and I think that is ok.

please take what I 've said into consideration as it seems to be a general sentiment around the site, also keep in mind that literature has no rating system.(at least that I could find)

For what its worth, I agree with everything Abyss has just suggested.

I agree as well ^^, the suggestion sounds quite good ^^

Thanks for raising this topic were us Modsie folks can see it, Abyss. I've been hearing whispers of this, but it seems like the whisperers either scuttle off into the shadows or mutter darkly whenever I hop in the Cbox. This is the first that someone's sought to address things in an open dialogue. Extra cookies for doing so in a well-reasoned, respectful manner. *feeds you*

I've actually been thinking on this subject myself, as well. From my own perspective as a Mod, the PG-13 violence rating is a pain to enforce. It's in the rules, but people are not fond of that being pointed out to them. Everyone has their own tolerance level for literary violence, and their own mental conception of "PG-13"--or they just don't know about the rule, and are under the false idea that we're already a "you can go over the rating, but put a warning note on the post" sort of site. Also, not everyone understands that in literature (or, at the least, MRO-literature) the rating difference is in the description of an action, not the action itself. And, though the violence side of things has been in the rules for as long as I can remember, it (like a few other rules I can think of) didn't start to get consistently enforced until relatively recently in site history. As a player and as a Mod, I'd be fine with just having people slap tags on their posts/threads; people can decide what they want to read. On that note: I very much <3 the "E for everyone" with major plot threads. If we did allow R-rated violence, I would strongly support that angle of things.

On that note--

please take what I 've said into consideration as it seems to be a general sentiment around the site

With regards to this line, I'm unsure how true the words "general sentiment" are. I can think of about 3-ish people who seem to truly chafe under the current rules; I can think of about 50-ish others who don't seem to mind it. Additionally, no one felt strongly enough about the issue to raise it during the Site Feedback Survey--the results from that stated that majority of people were totally fine with the current PG-13 rules, in fact. There are definitely players amongst us who don't want R-rated violence on MRO, and who actually joined MRO (in part) because of its PG-13 rating. I can speak that with confidence on that, seeing as I'm one of them.

As a player and as a writer, I find the vast majority of violent threads to be dull, disgusting, or both (mostly dull. so. intellectually. dull). As such: as a player, I don't like the idea of allowing the gore to escalate to new and dreadful(ly bland, like any canvas soaked in red) attempts at "creativity." However: my own tolerance level for the slaughterhouse drudgery already gets reached by the current dead meat quotas. If such threads were marked, that would actually make it more convenient for me to avoid them.

However, speaking from the "joined MRO because it's PG-13" perspective, it's quite possible that not all players would like to see a sudden change in a ruling that sets a fundamental tone to our site. As all players joined with full knowledge that we are a PG-13 site, violence-wise, then from both a Mod and player perspective, I think the fairest thing is to hold people to that.

Unless, however, a vast vast majority of people actively want the rule to change, and the others don't really mind. Then, from my perspective as a Mod, I'd rule in accordance with overall site wishes, and what the Team finds best.

((Note: My opinion is not necessarily the Team's opinion, nor is anything I say in this post to be taken as any sort of final Mod ruling. If the Team does decide on a rule change, it will be announced via the typical Mass PM. I'm just discussing things on an individual opinion level.))

Although the rating has always been one of those things I've sort of gone "You have to be 15 to join though" to, I must admit, pg-13 sounds perfectly fair to me. No one needs to hear about the itty bitty gritty details really. I'm not opposed to it being raised, however I think it is perfectly acceptable at its current level, and would like my vote counted (should it come to that in this thread) in the 'Nay' division.

Age level and ratings:
If we do go by the movie rating system, rated "R" technically requires a parent or guardian to to accompany anyone under the age of seventeen. We do have fifteen and sixteen year old players here. You can bet they aren't going to be asking their parents to read through those posts that are rated "R". They probably won't get nightmares, and they can probably handle it... but I don't want our site to be responsible for someone's internet privileges getting taken away because someone's mom caught them reading something with *rated R* in the title.

The "T for Teen" rating / description is probably closer to what we actually have here, though it is still fairly closely aligned with the movie's PG-13 version. For the rating guide:

TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

Again, if we switch to a M rating... we'd be setting a double standard, I feel. If the whole site truly were to change to "M" or to "R" I would feel uncomfortable letting fifteen and sixteen year olds join at all, even if 99% of the content on MRO wouldn't be inappropriate.

Membership issues:
I've dealt with a lot of new members, a lot of advertising, I've looked at a lot of other sites... trends I have noticed for rated "R" or "M" sites is that they tend to attract people that just want to write about gorey violence and/or sex on an anything-goes type of site. Not all the people who join or write on those sites are like that, but for those writers that do want that, that's where they go.

On the other end of the spectrum, we'd be losing a certain percentage of potential members that are either younger or simply are uninterested in joining a site where the content is uber-violent or uber-sexual. They aren't going to stick around long enough to actually read a few threads to determine what percentage are inappropriate and what percentage is just fine, they just won't apply.

I've talked with new members that have come from "R" or "M" sites to MRO. The general sentiment (not from everyone, but from most) seems to be that it isn't too difficult to tone it down and make things more subtle, and that to be on a site as great as this one, it's generally worth it.

Remember that the site rating does affect the crowd of people that are here. It affects the atmosphere in character and out of character, in posts and on the cbox. If we tailor our site to people who want to be as crude as they can, we're going to have a bunch of crude people hanging around.

Subtlety and the impossibility of actually rating literature:
I will agree completely that setting a rating system for literature is very difficult, because it isn't so much about what you write, as how you write it. There are ways to describe murder, for example, that are over the top gorey with squelching sound effects, and there are ways to describe murder that are more subtle, not any less violent, but understated in a way that leaves more of the work up to the imagination of the reader.

Subtlety is not as easy as outright description, but in my opinion it is more enjoyable to read. I enjoy seeing how someone gets around actually saying something outright, because it involves more creativity on their part AND on my part. They imply, I imagine. The reason for this... writing is not only a story, but a dialog between the writer and the reader. On the surface is the story or description, and underneath that are the hidden messages from author to reader, like an inside joke. Author: "Did you see what I did there?" Reader:"Oh yes, yes I did."

Simple example, with swearing:
Blatantly obvious: "Sh!tnuggets," Sebastian said.
Slightly more subtle: "****," Sebastian swore.
Even more subtle: Sebastian used a word even Hunter was too young to understand.

That's my message as an author to you the reader. Rather than spell it out, I've left somethings up to your imagination. What language is Sebby speaking? How harsh of a word was it, actually? You get to decide. Also, in that one sentence, I've managed to remind you that Sebby and Hunter are immortals and that Sebby is the older of the two, and I've given you a mini taste of Sebastian's personality. He's usually so polite, but he'll swear if he doesn't think you'll understand him. See what I did there?

Seriously, subtlety is like candy for your brain. Every time a reader "gets" what an author implies, you get a tiny little jolt to the brain. "Hey, I got the hidden implications. Yay for me!" Then you go back and read more by that author, because your brain likes it even if you don't realize why.

Personal feelings on the subject:
As a player I am opposed to changing the rating system to "R" or "M". I would like to change it to "T", and perhaps even include that official little description on the rules page, or something custom-made but similar. I don't especially want to attract the blatantly violent or blatantly sexual "R" or "M" crowd. I don't want to stumble on the gore by accident while I'm eating lunch at my desk. I don't want to have to be out of the loop on what is happening to people's characters because it happened in an "R" or "M" thread. I also don't think that we particularly need to change the rating system, because you are all good writers and I think you can all step up to the challenge of saying what you want to say with subtlety.

As a moderator, I agree with Calley, if the majority of players want it and the rest don't mind, I'd be willing to go with a change. However, I think we'd have to look whether we still accept 15 and 16 year old applicants, or if we raise the bar to 17.

(As Calley mentioned in her disclaimer... This is my own opinion and not an official mod ruling.)

I think the question ‘Why this wasn’t brought up in the site-survey?’ could be answered by the simple fact that this had been posted on the boards after it has been mentioned publicly. People do tend to say that they are fine with it because they think that there are very few people that share their actual opinion. I for one knew about 3 members that would like another rating. I had no idea Abyss (*cookies for posting this, Red*), Meld or Aura would like the rating to be changed, for example.

Anyway, if this was brought into open discussion, I’d love to see every member of the site give his/her opinion on the subject rather than leave it up to others.

Now, on to my opinion:

I think it can be summarized in this simple sentence: I don’t hate the PG-13 rating but I can’t say I love it either.

The smexyness: I must say that for this part, the PG-13 rating is perfect for me. Personally, I wouldn’t even bother to read threads that contain explicit sexual content. Just like in real life where you keep this private, the same principle should be applied here as well. A writer must have a limit on how much to write about it and with the current rating I think things have gone pretty smooth and I have yet to read something distasteful. On the other side, I have faith that if the rating changed members won’t suddenly go crazy and abuse the less restrictive rating.

The language: Maybe for certain types of characters, the subtleties work (or work up to a certain point). In my opinion, the language a character uses usially fits their personality. Kat, I hope you don’t mind I give Sebastian as an example. He is old and has learned what control is (emotion and language – wise). So I think that you, as a writer, don’t have to worry too much about him swearing - in this situation it’s easier when it comes to finding creative ways to express it. I admit, the third option is more interesting to read. But what about when the personality/age/situation/etc. make the character sound more believable if they swore more often? That’s when things become more difficult because there isn’t an infinite number of suggestions and if you use the ones you know over and over again it gets boring. I use a combination of the three options Kat had written, sticking to subtle ones because most of the times when I want to use the blatantly obvious I know I’d be violating a rule and change the behavior of my character to fit the rating. From the number of IC posts I have (let’s say about 800-900), there are probably 5 to 10 that have strong language in them. If the rating wouldn’t have worried me, I estimate that instead of 5-10 the number would have been 20-25. In my opinion, that is not so bad. And again, I don’t think people would abuse it.

The violence: This is the situation where I have to object about the PG-13 rating. In this case, I find it rather childish because the nature of the site and because of the fact that the system MRO uses to show the badness of a character is from -10 to -0.5/0. That makes me assume that the different levels of evilness can be best described by what type of violence and the details given.

Example:
The camp breakouts.
Lenna (with a -2 on the good/evil scale) had killed people during the breakouts but being on mission more than anything else, she had no personal reasons to kill the guards. I find it fitting that she shot them and kept descriptions within the PG-13 rating.
Roland (with a -10 on the good/evil scale), as many other mutants, had been captured and tortured so I think he’d have every IC reason to walk around covered in their blood and other tissues rather than just kill them.
So I think that in both cases, the image created by their authors fitted the character very well, even if one wasn’t PG-13.

I am one of the people that used violence and slapped a ‘Attention: Explicit violence.’ in my post. Why? Because saying ‘Circe maimed the guard’ doesn’t express her thirst for revenge the same way as describing what she did to the guard. Circe being my creation makes it easier for me to imagine just how angry she was and what were the consequences of that emotion. The people who read the thread however can’t understand her the same way I do. (Well, maybe, if they read all the other camp threads I have made and seriously, just how many people read all my threads so they could be able to know what is the intensity of her emotions and what she’d do?)

Another use I have for different levels of violence is to differentiate the two personalities my character has. (Circe is a -2. Medea is probably a -10.) Circe often kills because she is getting revenge or it’s a job to do. Getting sprayed with her enemy’s blood would probably make her wrinkle her nose in disgust. Medea doesn’t need much motivation to kill someone and bathing in her enemy’s blood is what she enjoys. So in the same situation (which is probably not very PG-13) the two of them react quite differently.

So for this part, I vote for the rating to be less restrictive. I like Abyss’ suggestion of putting a ‘V’ for the threads that have explicit content (or a warning before the post, in case you don’t know from the start that threads will have explicit violence.) and I find it only fair to make sure that members are warned about the content of a thread/post. And in case of this threads, perhaps a last post (or a few sentences at the end of a post, in case only a few posts from the thread contain explicit content) summarizing what happened in it will solve the problem of not knowing what happened with a character because you don’t want to read the gruesome details.

It is hard to choose a rating because basically none is perfect and none will satisfy every member. So I actually think that rather than changing the rating, some of the limitations should be removed from the current rating. Instead of letting the members to have their own different opinion about the rating, I suggest the rules to give precise limitations on how far the writer can go with the descriptions and actions of his/her character. Quoting the current rule: ‘violence non-excessive’, ‘relatively clean language’, ‘fade to tasteful black’. I think each member has it’s own opinion on non-excessive, clean and tasteful means and sometimes it’s easy to cross the line and not even notice it.

I think clear limitations on just how far the mature content can go + warning (and optionally a summary – probably in case something major happens [character being hurt badly and/or visibly, in case of actions that lead to legal consequences, stuff like that]) would make things continue to run smooth. Limitations would be pretty useful for non-American members such as myself. Romania doesn’t use this rating system and I, for one, have yet to set clear limits in my head when seeing PG-13, R, etc. (We have less ratings, different age limits, etc. so I can’t associate a Romanian rating with an American one and say they are the same or at least similar.)

Another reason I’d give for tweaking the current rating rather than change it completely – I’ve said in various occasions that I trust members not abusing a less restrictive rating. I have to mention that I am referring to the members that have rp-ed under the PG-13 rating and probably know that allowed mature content doesn’t exactly mean going into the tiniest details of a scene or even going trough every detail of a scene. For new members, I fear that seeing the ‘R’ would either make them turn around and leave or mistake MRO for one of the sites Kat was talking about (I’ve seen sites with the R rating and people do tend to abuse it, both IC and OOC so I understand your concern.)

This is pretty much what I think about the subject. I do hope members won’t mind I used their characters as examples and that eventually some sort of agreement will be reached so everyone can be happy about the rating.

I'm fifteen years old, so I guess I could give my point of view on this.

I can't speak for every teenager out there, but I've been role-playing for almost seven years now and for about a year I've been on Rated R sites. My parents do not care, as long as I don't go out into the real world and murder people or stuff like that, hehe.

The same goes with books and movies. I can watch whatever I want, as long as it doesn't give me bad ideas... My parents say it's my fault if I have nightmares. I think that most parents have that same theory. In the past few years, teenagers have really stopped caring about all of the ratings, and the parents don't do much about it... Then again, that's just what I think.

Teenagers these days see and hear a lot of stuff. We're a lot more mature (In some ways) and don't mind things as much. I guess people could always mark their threads if it comes down to it. If members believe their parents could potentially take away their internet or if some members are just uncomfortable, they could always not view them. It's to their discretion.

So, that's a teenager's point of view on things. I'd be all for raising the rating, and I've RPed on Mature boards many times before. The only thing I would be against however, for obvious reasons, would be raising the age minimum to seventeen. Unless I would be allowed to stay... Then I'd be fine with it. =P

~Speed

I joined this site when I had just turned 16 years old. At the time, PG-13 was the perfect option because it was a time for me to learn how to write with more creativity and yet not feel the pressure of not having experienced enough or seen enough in the real world to really grasp the R rated scene. Of course, to this day, I have never killed anyone, but I watch a lot more horror movies now than I did at 16. At that age, I would have preferred some kind of warning in the title to clue me in that if I do not wish to be offended by crude language, sexual activities or violent descriptions, then the easiest way was to stay away from that.

Those years ago, however, we had a bit less members and the posts stayed along the PG-13 and only made a short brief reference if anything too violent or sexual was done (then again, I may just be looking at the glory posts). Now that I'm older and I am guilty of coming up with quite the violent character, Ahorta, I have written graphic posts.

I think at this site, Speedman, we tend to cater to quite the vast majority instead of just a majority since we all value each other as a part of the MRO universe. I would say that a T rating would fit this site more. It wouldn't change things or make anyone feel like their posts are too low-graphic or anything like that. Instead, it's just a better description for the site as it has been.

One experience I had on another site was a Mature Board. Anything mature would be filed in that board and you needed a password to get into the board. In order to get this password, you had to prove to a Mod that you were 18 or older. However, as many pornographic websites have found, there are ways around this. Many people would make up a facebook and befriend the website as being older than they really were. Also, the Mature Board seemed to evoke a certain bar of expectancy for anyone posting in it. It was almost as if everyone had to use a curse word or had to describe blood and extensive amounts of details. The board seemed to be more of an NC-17 board as people came up with reasons to post in there.

Due to that, I am iffy on the Mature Board ideas. If anything, I would suggest a M on the front of a post or a thread if it's going to be for a mature audience. This way, there was a warning in front of the post to make sure everyone was aware of the nature of the post or thread and yet it does not make the posting of the thread much different because it still has to be toned down a little due to its unrestricted publication. I'd say for mature threads, it would be more like a teetering edge on PG-13 and R. Definitely not NC-17. I feel that by putting an M in front of the board or post, it will make the writer aware that even though they warn other people about the nature of the post or board, they are still held responsible if it is too graphic.

It's like giving a man a microphone and telling him he can say and do anything but he's standing in front of a lot of people. Its a smaller possibility of him stripping down naked and running around screaming curse words into the microphone, instead of being in a room all by himself with some energy drinks. In a way, the non-secluded, yet warned post would give the writer an opportunity to voice what they feel like voicing but only to the point that they feel like other people can view them as. I hope I'm making sense. Since all threads are monitored, I would say there should be a place where rp'ers should post a link for their M thread so the mods can keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn't turn into a man streaking with a microphone.

It's just a thought. It's a little hard posting Ahorta's personality in a PG-13 manner. A 'T' rating would be easier to work with.

Well here’s my two cents,

Had I come back with the old Hunter I feel that I’d be getting a PM from the mods sooner or later as old Hunter was a very violent fellow and would indulge in exceptional brutal torture that would have Hull need to up his game to keep up. I probably couldn’t write it as eloquently as Zephyr does which would possibly make it more explicit.

Now should I be allowed to do that? Well I feel it all comes down to how important it is to the character that I am explicit rather than vague. It would have shown a lot about Hunter’s old character to have him taking in every little detail. Would it be necessary, no but it would have done a lot to enhance his character.

I’m honestly quite happy with where we are with swearing, which is simply replacing some or all of the letters with *s (or at least that’s how I interpret where we are with swearing). I don’t feel it would add anything t the site to stop doing that. Likewise with the sexier things I’ve never heard of anyone waiting too long to fade to black and doubt it would enhance the site in any way to leave the lights on longer.

So to sum up my thoughts I approve of an increase of the level of allowed violence but feel it shouldn’t be violence for violence’s sake but as a way to enhance a character. Not every thread needs you explaining in great detail how you cut a guys arm off, only where it will truly enhance your character. For example Schrodinger’s Kat is a thread I feel is enhanced by the detailed descriptions of Hull’s actions and how they affect both characters. Nothing Sacred does not need a detailed description of how each of the people died as it would do little to improve the thread.

I hope what I’m saying makes sense. Up the violence allowed, but only where it helps enhance a character rather than gore for gore’s sake but leave the sexy and swearing where they are.

Alright heres my ten cents.

I have always used the rating system as more of a guideline more so than anything else. I Make posts here as I write them normally in my prose. I believe that what some of what Abyss is Suggesting is completely feasible. My posts , while violent, are actually PG-13 rated . I myself have seen movies under the PG-13 rating such as Taken, Scary Movie 3 and Lord of the Rings all of which I use as pretty good guidelines as what Pg 13 is. However, I think upping the rating to T may be a better option, it would give much more of a variety of posting options for those who want to post things, While not completely explicit to be for more mature audiences.

This site has always been for people 15 and up which is right close to the T rating in my opinion. I have heard multiple people talking about this on the C box but we have yet to make a post about it, something I congratulate Abyss for. The only reason why people tend to stop talking about it when the Mods log in, is mainly the fact that people don’t want to discuss rules with a Mod on the C box. Purely for the fact that it gets a little awkward and things may or may not be worded wrong, things may be said and a whole mess can be made. And we don’t want to accidentally make a mess with anyone since are one big happy family. Mainly Talking about it in post form really shows the unification of some, aiding us in making our point.

Here is something that has always bothered me about the pg13 rating on the site. Certain forms of Implication can be fine and dandy but sometimes, the words that go with them actually need to be said. Because quite honestly saying, “He attempted to Mate with me.” Looses its Impact and in its stead should be, “He attempted to Rape me.” Words are powerful and depending on how you use them they can make for a really well written post. Now Im not saying that the site should be changed to R but I think there should be some things like, certain violent situations that can be a little better described. Description, without shock factor and over usage is your friend. It works better it makes us visualize these things happening to these characters. Implications while they can work, can only push your mind so far in a way. The anguish of a character and their pain needs to be described in a way that really makes it hit home. This is what character development is. Am I saying everyone is like me and should believe this, No I am not. But I believe It will do us far more good than not if we are given a chance to expand our horizons and write under a T rating.

PS: While I think that is very nice that we are thinking of people who are at work on the site, I think a simple (This thread may not be safe for those in public situations) may be nice and gives them a good indication they shouldn’t be reading it at work. Because It may be bad to read someone murdering someone else at work.

I know I'm rather newish, but I think I've been around long enough to understand the situation. I totally encourage changing the rating to "T", because it does fit better, as we are text-based, and it fits way better than the American movie-rating system, especially because, it seems, it's hard to find where the line between PG-13 and R actually lies, mostly with violence. Other things like sex, cursing, and the like are pretty easy to define, rating-wise.

However, I'm a little confused. I've seen a few people referring to the PG-13 rating as if it labeled things that were appropriate for children under 13. I recall something said along the lines of "Remember, the site rating is PG-13, so write your posts so they'd be appropriate for your 12-year-old cousin or grandmother to read!" That... might not have been the exact wording, but it was something like that. Now, I was under the impression that PG-13 meant "Not appropriate for audiences under 13 years of age." In order to get into a movie with that rating, you either have to be 13 or older, or accompanied by a legal guardian. PG-13 movies can get fairly violent. I'm under the impression that the guidelines on violence on this site are a little stricter than PG-13 actually allows.

As I said, I'm also relatively new here, so I could be way off. I'm just talking about what I've seen. That said, I fully agree with the idea of changing the rating to "T", which makes rating restrictions a bit more lax, but within reason, and still around the 15+ rating.

I alsow wanted to throw it out there that we may want to use a warning that is a little less stero typed if we do go the warning marker route.

A M for mature could easily make some one think that there was all sorts of vile stuff inside, but if we went with a V for violence or maybe even three Astrix *** then we would have something more subtle and just as effective. I don't want anyone getting kicked out, I don't want anyone to leave, I don't want to invite gruesome cruelt characters to the site that over run it with squelchy blood spattered wickedness.

I do think that the site will be fine. and while no one brought it up on the survey, there will come times when things will come up and things change, I appreciate every one's input and also the survey the mods sent out.

*love*

To add to what i said before when i simply agreed, im not really into reading about sex myself, in fact i usually avoid reading about it where i can. But violence does not really bother me and sometimes it's hard to make aura seem like the brutal child solider she is worrying about the pg13 rating. while a step by step dissection might be over the top, some slightly more brutal displays may help to flesh out the more evil characters on the site.

But i grew up with it being fine for me to watch or read anything as long as i did not break the law or end up in jail. Even cartoons tend to be extremely violent, more so the old ones (im looking at you Bugs!). I guess when it comes down to it, it's mostly about how mature each person is, some people can handle reading/playing things about violence and sex and others blame video games.

Either way this issue has brought more attention then i thought it ever would, thank you abyss for being able to word things so well. I think people avoid bringing things like this up, because they don't want it to sound wrong or bad and it either to be just dismissed or turn into a fight that ends with them leaving. Also people tend to think their alone on their opinios, i never knew their would be such support for changeing the rating at all, i figured it was just me or a few others.